mrob at June 10th, 2013 03:01 — #1
Another (google doc) recipe to add to the list. I ended up a lot more detailed than I had expected, but probably for the better. I'm planning on sitting on this for a week for feedback and any new developments before grabbing everything, but feel free to use the template or any other aspects for your own needs.
I've used a combination of @GodRaine's template and /u/BillCurry's template. For the ingredients I started from the Soylent blog post on the most recent recipe, only without the soy licithin, with some help from @Dovaka's recipe. The up front cost is much higher than most, but the daily cost ends up being lower.
I'm purposely being conservative on fat, protein, and calories due to a more sedentary life and lots of social eating, which I may end up needing to increase in the future if I use it as a more complete meal replacement.
Feel free to leave any notes or concerns, they're greatly appreciated!
starchasertyger at June 16th, 2013 07:56 — #2
'Mutant mass'. Heh. (Not a comment on your choice or anything, I just find the name amusing.)
curiousben at June 16th, 2013 08:17 — #3
Apart from the usual issue of hyper-exact measurements in "cups", "scoops" and "spoons", the main problem is that Lecithin was in the others for a reason - it acts as an emulsifier.
Without it, you will shake your Soylent for an hour, then put it down, and after 5 seconds the oat flour will separate out and sink to the bottom.
madpoet at June 16th, 2013 20:26 — #5
How much Lechtin do you need to keep the oat flour from settling badly?
mrob at June 27th, 2013 01:02 — #6
So I've made some pretty major revisions to my ingredient list, including adding soy licithin and changing my sources for a more complete formula. Unfortunately this ended up bring up the initial investment and daily price.
I've also added a sort of 'TrueNutrition' calculator on another tab, that feeds into the main table. Like others, I might end up making a separate Ingredients tab, but that's for another time.
I'm bumping this thread also to ask for critique of the formula and nutrients. Obviously a large investment, and input is greatly appreciated. Want to make sure I have my macros right, and if there are any instant red flags for the micros.
I'm 6'1, 150-160lbs (depending on the day of the week), and lead a relatively sedentary lifestyle with the occasional run or rock climbing. I am anticipating increasing physical activity, however.
mrob at July 11th, 2013 10:54 — #7
For the recipe: I ended up lowering the maltodextrin according to some suggestions, and increasing the calories from the oils.
Day One of Nom:
Mixing: I noticed the serving size to grams was way off on a couple ingredients (like the fiber). Either my scale is screwy and I've added waay too much of some ingredients, or I'll just need to measure out how much is in my fiber packs to confirm I'm using the correct amount. Either way, I don't trust the cheap scale I got, especially since it can only measure in 1 gram increments.
Texture: After mixing everything with a little under 3 liters of water, it's mostly tolerable, better cold. Froze two bottles and refrigerated a third over night, and all three separated / settled despite the soy lecithin. Also kind of grainy; might have to try soaking the oat powder outside of everything first, as opposed to letting it sit with the whole mix.
Consumption: I had a couple gulps this morning, and have since felt a little jittery but otherwise oddly satiated for an hour or two. Most of my energy in the morning is already from taking 5k IU vit D supplements and the multi-vitamin the night before, so still just trying to keep aware of my energy, and where everything is coming from. I didn't exactly have the most healthy dinner last night, so that'll be affecting how the first couple days go. Frankly there's a lot that could be entirely psychosomatic as well, so I'll see how I last through the first day, and probably write a day 3 update. Definitely 'feels' like there's a lot of fiber / oat powder, so will have to look back on that.
Will definitely have to add something to the mix to make it a little more tolerable; either blue berries or chocolate. The pseudo-vanilla I added helps, but only by so much.
foomf at July 11th, 2013 16:00 — #8
All dietician advice says you should be having more than 'a few gulps' for breakfast. Starting correctly will also help even out any screwiness from your night-before. Are you planning to be a 3-4 refuel type, or a sipper-over-time?
mrob at July 11th, 2013 16:13 — #9
Sipper-over-time (which is how I tend to eat anyways). I've since evened out through the day, but the weightyness of the oat powder has remained. As others have suggested, I probably just need to soak them before use.
foomf at July 11th, 2013 16:26 — #10
I'm finding your recipe to be very close to what I want to try anyway, so I'm watching your reactions
I think the soaking oat powder is a good idea anyway. Are you planning to acidulate the soaking water a bit? That might change the flavor.
mrob at July 12th, 2013 10:39 — #11
I tweaked my formula again; increasing the protein and water, adding two scoops of cocoa powder I had lying around, and made two days worth. By the end of the day yesterday, I felt like I was starving. This morning, the increase in protein was definitely appreciated.
I also let the oat powder soak for an hour in warm water which substantially helped how much separation occurred and the overall texture / taste. Adding oils to the oats, mixing to consistency, and then adding the powder I think helped a lot too. (I'm using whisks and mixing bowls for everything, so halfway through I end up looking like a baker.)
Going to start taking 'snap shots' of my formula so I can keep track of what tweaks I've done when, with notes on overall [perceived] health.
foomf at July 12th, 2013 16:24 — #12
I was planning to add cocoa powder anyway, for flavor and for the blood pressure benefits. I may end up doing an overnight soak with water and a tablespoon of live-culture greek yogurt, just for grins. I have no particular issues with milk. I may also add turmeric for other reasons, though I doubt it will make much difference to the flavor.
mrob at July 12th, 2013 17:56 — #13
I added a tbsp of cocoa per day, which is surprisingly a lot. It's definitely helped the taste on a subtle level, but more oft than not it still ends up tasting like flavored oatmeal. It ends up growing more tolerable throughout the day, though, so there is that. All this said...
Day Two: I've been going through some really odd symptoms (light-headedness, lethargy, tiredness, ear-ringing [wat]), and a friend mentioned that I was probably too low on calories, considering how much I tend to eat in fats and proteins. Looking over what I created for today's batch, this made a lot of sense, even through an addled mind. Crunching on some donuts and chips cleared things up surprisingly quickly.
Though I had thought I could be conservative on calories sans digesting solid food, this simply hasn't been viable. It might be possible to reduce the calories after a couple days on a liquid diet, once everything else is flushed out, but definitely not to start. It didn't help that with the comparable amount of fiber, I was feeling full, but wasn't necessarily getting anything out of it.
I've significantly increased the calories through proteins, fats, avoiding relying on the malto for this. Though I have a second day's batch of todays recipe, I'll most likely thaw it out and mix it with the batch I'll make tonight.
mrob at July 13th, 2013 15:28 — #14
Being a lot more active about drinking the mix has helped to some degree (still on the low calorie mix), but after this morning's 'breakfast' it was apparent I was still missing something. I've since added some raw sugar and more salt to my smaller daily jars, and feel a lot more stable for it.
Narrowing down on needs is a helluva ride. I do not envy @rob's first foray into this.
mrob at July 14th, 2013 18:39 — #15
Day 4: Uhm, wow. Intellectually speaking, the first few days can best be described as suddenly somebody turning all the lights on full blast in a warehouse, where only about half were on at a time, and usually dim. Blinding, and kind of useless. The next few days have been a lot of trial and error in toning down the lights and navigating what's been illuminated.
I've pretty much been doing a sort of 80% soylent 20% snack / junk food on the lower calorie mix that's helped even me out a lot more than snack or junk food should. I finished it off the low calorie mix this morning, and can still feel a lot of energy intellectually, but physically my body is buggered about not having enough. Having just had the larger calorie mix some hours ago, I'm hoping things will even out after this.
On an interesting note, my partner has noted that I smell different: "Less 'bad', but definitely more like yourself." I'm definitely curious to see how this changes after I start adding more sulfur to the mix (purposely avoided for the first couple days).
editDay 5 Rather than bumping this post, I'll just add a quick note here. Though I'm definitely more alert and aware, there are some pretty large fluctuations in my moment to moment energy that are a little worrisome. When I'm hungry it starts hitting especially hard, and after downing a shake I end up going through more than a couple ups and downs that include what have become yawning fits. How long these last have been reduced by the higher calorie mix, but along with the headaches (which may just be indicative of increased blood pressure through a complex web of knots in my back and neck), I'm still not comfortable saying I have an accurate 'soylent' recipe. Not for myself, at least. On the upside, I haven't dealt with any GI uncomfortableness.
edit 2 Removing the maltodextrin completely might solve a lot of this, so I'm going to make a single day's batch tonight and see how it goes. Today, however, I'll be getting some Old Food for lunch & dinner.
curiousben at July 14th, 2013 18:41 — #16
Add the sulfur SLOWLY.
mrob at July 16th, 2013 10:28 — #17
Day 6: Removing the maltodextrin definitely resolved a lot of the sugar high / low issues, but I still get into a yawning fit for about a half hour after 'breakfast.' Despite how much it adds to the taste, I might also have to simply remove the cocoa powder, or reduce it. Dealing with a dip in energy after consumption is really annoying, and yesterday I simply didn't finish that days malto-rich batch, let alone start the second batch of the same formula I had prepared.
I'm still really surprised at how much better I feel. I had thought that I was already on a relatively healthy diet, along with a multivitamin, that the change would be negligible. I was wrong, and would like to think at least half of it is due to placebo, but at the same time I've hit more than a couple frustrations along the way that have only exacerbated my skepticism.
This morning I not only woke up to my alarm, but felt energized to actually get up. I had an hour to burn before needing to get ready and head out to work, and was almost at a loss for what to do. I considered starting my morning work out routine back up again, which got me thinking of the Catch 22: I don't work out because I'm lazy, and I'm lazy because I don't work out. That this has suddenly been dealt a blow thanks to a change in my diet is kind of awesome. I'm more motivated to be physically active because I have more energy, while the lack of physical health itself is becoming more noticeable. I'll refrain from it for now for the sake of being cognizant of what's Food and what's Physical Health, but we'll see how long that lasts.
Over and out.
mrob at July 18th, 2013 18:10 — #18
Day 8 I think I've finally got the formula right. Reintroducing the malto at less than half of the previous amount has definitely stabilized my energy throughout the day.
Another problem was trying to consume 3 liters of soylent a day. Since then, I add only enough hot water to the oat powder & soy lecithin to soak it for about an hour, and then add everything else in. I've got the whole mix under two liters a day, which is substantially easier to consume with the occasional glass of water.
Overall, feeling pretty great. Tonight I'll make a weeks worth and see how it lasts, and hopefully in that time go in for some blood tests.
mrob at July 18th, 2013 18:59 — #19
Sorry I never replied to this; I use 15g for everything which seems to have a decent enough effect ( I can't remember where I saw this number but it seemed to be the standard 'serving size'). Since 'compressing' the mixture I don't have to worry nearly as much about separation as well.
I also soak the oat powder with the fiber & soy lecithin together which has a pretty substantial effect on consistency as well.
mrob at July 22nd, 2013 08:57 — #20
Day 11 Day 9 I had the chance to put my sad attempts at physical activity to a test it shouldn't, or at least normally wouldn't pass.
Biked around hills in an unfamiliar area, going from one meeting to the next, for about six hours, totalling 8 miles in easily 95+ degree weather.
I felt great, had a days worth of nom in a 1 liter bottle, and had water when I needed it. Never got hungry, or felt dehydrated, and was cognizant and alert for every meeting.
This morning, my brain dragged my body out of bed before my alarm went off. I'm still by no means physically healthy in the sense of fitness, and it shows occasionally, but it does improve the desire and ease to slip back into an exercise routine. I've held off for the sake of exploring just how much a healthier diet has an effect on my mental faculties.
Over and out.
starchasertyger at July 23rd, 2013 01:10 — #21
You might try looking for a different cocoa powder, if the one you're using is causing trouble. Hershey's Special Dark is 100% cocoa, (you can find the nutrition info here ) and has no sugar or anything in it. Per tablespoon, it's 0.5g fat, (no saturated or trans, but when it's that low they're allowed to round down) 65mg sodium, 3g carb, which is 2g fiber and no sugar, 1g protein, and it claims 10% of daily iron.
It's actually pretty good, too. I plan on using it in my soylent, which might squeeze me a little close to the edge in iron, which I hadn't thought of before.
Always interesting in hearing this sort of progress report. Thanks for posting it.
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